The music podcast <MUB> Episode 65
In the episode titled "Is the K-Pop Generation Theory Okay as It Is?"
The conversation between music critics Jung Min-jae and Kim Yun-ha about the K-Pop generation theory was casual and interesting, so I have summarized parts of it.
They are well-known critics in the industry.
I was a bit hesitant to mention it, thinking it might sound like something random people would talk about, so I added a cushion.
Anyway, the shared stance of both critics:
"Dividing generations itself is meaningless."
'Idols are iPhones'
'If you look at the teen pop lineage, Britney Spears was the second generation.
What is Olivia Rodrigo's 8th generation now?
(Overseas) they don't talk like this'
But he said he understood why people were talking about generational theory.
It's comfortable when the media talks about it
People are also interested so there is a lot to talk about.
And if you look at it, there is no such thing as no tendency at all.
Since there are many people who insist on making a distinction, let's talk about how it is made.
It is said that the generational division between the 1st and 2nd generations is relatively clear.
The first generation disbanded and there were no idols for a while.
The second generation is coming in droves
There was a clear period of disconnection between the 1st and 2nd generations, and changes in the industry were also evident.
From the 3rd generation onwards, the flow continues without any interruption.
However, if we try to distinguish between the three generations,
The time when everything started to become intertwined with overseas
Previous generations also encountered foreign countries, but it became much more serious from the third generation onwards.
What about the 4th generation?
Personally, I think it's based on girl groups.
When Itzy appeared as 'Dalla Dalla'
Will things really change...? This is the spirit of change that was brought about and the latecomers are continuing it.
'The first generation in which girl groups took over the main agenda of generational theory, which was always carried by boy groups'
What about the 5th generation?
You said it was premature
- I think it was used for marketing purposes by a boy group.
- There will come a time when we can naturally talk about the 5th generation, but it is not yet.
- There are changes, but it is not enough to talk about the 5th generation since it is treated as the main thing.
- The trend led by girl groups classified as 4th generation continues
This is an abridged version of the generational theory talk, so those who are more interested are recommended to listen to the broadcast on YouTube or a podcast.
THE COMMENTS
- Most people first recognized the term "4th generation idols" in 2022, with groups like (G)I-DLE, IVE, NewJeans, and aespa dominating the music scene. It’s only been two years since the term gained traction, yet they’re already talking about a 5th generation.
- The first mention of 5th-generation writing started with Mnet's pre-promotion before Boys Planet aired. Back then, everyone in idol fandom laughed at the idea of a 5th generation. Before Boys Planet, people said they were tired of survival shows and wouldn't watch, but it gained massive popularity domestically and internationally, leading to a successful debut group. Following that, medium and large-scale idols who debuted later began referencing the 5th generation in their marketing, and the term started gaining attention.
- It just seems like their own fight.
- Honestly, I think dividing into generations is really weird. It’s not like there’s an official declaration saying, "From now on, it’s the Nth generation."
- Both 4th and 5th generations feel forced.
- I feel the same. Dividing generations doesn’t have much meaning, and I don’t understand why some people think it’s up to them to decide. I wish the 5th-generation advocates would stop.
- Even casual fans say it's all just marketing.
- The whole dividing into generations thing feels ridiculous.
- 3rd-generation male and female idols were such solid top players. Even during the supposed 4th generation, the 3rd generation was still going strong.
- The 5th-generation rhetoric feels like, "What you like is outdated, old, and irrelevant. This is the latest trend." It's just marketing.
- Stop dividing into generations—it makes active idols suddenly seem old.
- This isn’t unique to Korea or the idol industry. It’s a bizarre classification system. They envied the "2nd generation" title. During the 3rd generation, it was the same. The 2nd and 3rd generations overlapped in their active periods, so they forcibly created the 4th generation, and now the 5th generation.
- It’s all just PR pushed by entertainment agencies.
- Even though Mnet promotes the 5th generation, it’s still the 4th generation.
- From an outsider’s perspective, dividing generations feels childish.
- To divide generations, there needs to be mass appeal.
- It’s just PR. They want to claim they’ve ushered in a new generation.
- Up to the 3rd generation, there were distinctions. But the 4th and 5th generations seem like the same generation.
- It’s exactly what we’re saying.
- Debating generational divisions seems utterly pointless. Over time, when changes or trends emerge that justify divisions, people can decide then. Why set it in advance?
- Honestly, calling it the 5th generation is definitely forced.
- I always found it weird to separate male and female idols into different generations. They’re active in the same era, so why is one 4th generation and another 5th?
- There might be generational distinctions. From the 5th generation onward, it feels like a post-COVID vibe. The 4th generation lasted from 2017 to early 2023, which isn’t a short period.
- I hadn’t thought of the 4th generation as the first where girl groups led the way.
- The 5th generation? Really...
- After the 3rd generation, I don’t think it matters.
- Articles constantly push the narrative, but dividing generations after COVID feels meaningless.
- I get the 3rd generation, but from the 4th generation onward, I don’t see the point.
- I didn’t understand generational divisions at all, but reading this, I get it a little.
- I don’t understand anything beyond the 1st and 2nd generations.
- The 5th generation? Who even knows them? They're all nobodies.
- The 5th-generation rhetoric matches post 309.
- Why are generations divided? The 3rd generation is still strong with the biggest fandoms, and even 2nd-generation idols are active. What’s the point?
- I don’t understand the criteria for dividing generations. It just makes me blink in confusion.
- Within the industry, the generational concept is a marketing tool to promote newly debuted idols like new products.
- In the beginning, it felt distinct, but now it’s hard to tell.
- Fans want to claim their favorite idols are the best. Dividing generations allows them to say, "My idols are the top of this generation."
- Completely agree. Dividing generations seems totally meaningless.
- Agreed. 5th-generation boy groups... I don’t get it.
- The original post is spot on. The 5th generation is just a marketing term, like the old "Move aside, Hyori!"
- So now every new debut is the 5th generation? By that logic, in 10 years, we'll have the 7th or 8th generation. What even is that?
- "The first generation where girl groups took the main agenda from boy groups"—I don’t get this as the 4th-generation standard. It’s just a marketing outcome. There were always times when girl groups were dominant. Up to the 3rd generation makes sense because of global expansion, but beyond that, it’s meaningless.
- Up to the 3rd generation, the market was finding its footing, so divisions made sense. Beyond that, I don’t think it matters.
- Even if it’s meaningless, it’s already established in idol fandoms. It’s convenient for practical purposes.
- Agree with the boy group marketing sentiment.
- The 5th generation is just their own rhetoric. The 4th-generation representatives, aespa, IVE, and NewJeans, are in their prime. What’s with the boy groups who can’t even dominate the mainstream claiming they’re 5th generation?
- The criteria aren’t clear. It might make more sense to divide them by 5-year intervals.
- It’s just marketing.
- In the future, are we going to see a 10th or 23rd generation? What’s the point?
- Agreed. The 1st and 2nd generations were clearly defined due to gaps, and the 3rd generation is okay too. But beyond the 4th generation, is there any point? The idol industry has fully established itself as a mainstream genre, and a gap for other types of music seems unlikely. There’s no need for more divisions. The 5th generation is just something people forced through PR. Why does a generation change every 3-4 years? It’s ridiculous.
- It’s childish.
- The 5th generation was just a marketing term created by Mnet.
- It feels like the 5th generation signifies a decline in K-pop.
- I think it's a bad marketing strategy to demean earlier idols as outdated. Dividing ranks, generations, and forming elite groups by name fragments should stop.
- It's a tactic to promote new idols by labeling established ones as outdated and claiming the new ones belong to a fresh generation.
- The 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generations are understandable, but the 4th and 5th generations feel vague. Everything now feels like the 4th or even 3.5th generation.
- Even during the 3rd generation, there were debates about dividing into generations. It's meaningless to categorize them since activities don't have clear separations. Or they should at least prove it with overwhelming data like album sales.
- I have no clue about the 5th generation.
- Isn't it obvious that CJ started the 5th generation talk to promote their group, ZB1?
- With 3rd generation groups still active, dividing generations now feels pointless. They market it as a new branding tactic. Personally, some groups might need to disband to avoid stagnation and let fans move on.
- I don’t see why dividing after the 3rd generation is meaningful.
- Everyone knows the entertainment industry is messy, and the generation theory is just shallow marketing. Even the creators of this concept probably thought so. Only fans get caught up in it.
- The idea of dividing into generations beyond the 1st and 2nd is meaningless.
- It’s clear the 5th generation is just a marketing strategy.
- It seems like it’s being used as a marketing tactic, especially for boy groups.
- The idea that girl groups have taken over the main agenda of generation shifts, which used to belong to boy groups, is relatable. Media coverage since 2022 backs this up, including the 5th generation marketing strategy.
- There was no generation talk during the 3rd generation, but suddenly, it started afterward. I don’t understand why it’s necessary.
- I felt a strong push toward the 5th generation for male idols, which made me resistant to the idea.
- There’s a distinction between the 3rd and 4th generations, but beyond that, it feels forced.
- Using generations as a marketing tactic feels empty and unnecessary.
- It’s pointless, like defining K-pop by songs that only fit specific idols. Just as K-pop definitions vary, so do these generation theories.
- Marketing created the 4th and 5th generations.
- The 1st and 2nd generations have clear distinctions, but starting from the 3rd, the lines blur. The marketing for 4th and 5th generations feels fabricated.
- BTS, BLACKPINK, and SEVENTEEN are still at the top; how can we talk about a 5th generation?
- The 5th generation feels premature. Groups from earlier generations are still thriving, making such divisions seem unnecessary.
- It feels like gaslighting started with the 4th generation.
- The idea of disbanding groups isn’t about functioning ones but those lingering with individual activities under the group’s name, causing unnecessary complications.
- We’re still in the 4th generation.
- The idea of the 5th generation feels forced to differentiate as something "fresh" when earlier generations are still thriving.
- The 3rd generation was long, and now it’s clearly the 4th.
ORIGINAL POST HERE
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